Click on the video above to watch Episode 254 of the Semantic Mastery Hump Day Hangouts.
Full timestamps with topics and times can be found at the link above.
The latest upcoming free SEO Q&A Hump Day Hangout can be found at https://semanticmastery.com/humpday.
Bradley: Alright, I think we're live. So Hey everybody, this is Bradley bender with Semantic Mastery Today is September 18, 2019. This is Hump Day hangout Episode 254. It's quite a feat where we're approaching our What is it five year anniversary? just about right 260. So I think we're six weeks away from that.
Marco: Five years, man five years. I'm going to have to miss one next week. But I won't be missing our five year anniversary no matter what. And that's quite an accomplishment, man.
Bradley: Five years of coming here for an hour and talking shit every week. Anyways, let me go right on down the line. Adam is out running, running in the woods as he often does. So he's not here today. So that's why I'm doing the kind of introductions and announcements and all that and you just heard Marco, but go ahead and let's give a formal introduction to Marco. How are you?
Marco: I'm good, man. I'm good. We've been having really good weather in Costa Rica. You know better than usual during the rainy season hasn't rained in a couple of days. So it's a pretty good man. And I'm happy going away on vacation next week. After what, three years since my last one. Siloed the family and we just go away. I'm gonna just disconnect. So don't look for me next week won't be here.
Bradley: Yeah, I disconnect. I think I took one vacation two years ago. But I usually what I do now is just I go, I take weekends off now, which I didn't use. You know, for many years. I worked six or seven days a week most of the time, seven days a week and now I take just about every weekend off. I rarely work on the weekend. So I don't really take full vacations much anymore, but a lot of times I don't work on Fridays much either. It's like a three day weekend almost every weekend. So anyways Chris, how are you doing man?
Chris: doing excellent, as usual here.
Bradley: Good. And we got we're going to be talking about a couple of things here in a moment. But let me introduce Hernan. Hernan, how are you?
Hernan: Hey guys, Hey, what's up everybody good. I'm battling with my connection but other than that really good. Hey, sorry I'm here, Miami and just really excited for POFU Live instead of working on my presentation actually today for POFU Live up, that's gonna be pretty awesome. And you know, I'm excited. I'm really, really excited. Will you answer the question I was going to ask you, which was why are you battling with your connection? Because maybe we're battling with it yesterday as well. And so it's you're traveling again? Is that it?
Hernan: Yeah. So I'm on the road. So I'm here and there. So I'm battling with my connection. That's why it's up here and in Miami to so probably going to have a better connection next week moving forward. So all right.
Bradley: Well, speaking of hopefully live, I was working on my presentation a bit yesterday. It takes me several weeks to get put one of those together for once a year type presentation. But I'm looking forward to that. And so we're going to talk about that just briefly. Over the next week or two, we're actually for the next couple of weeks we're going to be each one of us are going to be doing like a live stream video into the Facebook groups, just kind of talking about what we call our, you know, our post food path to POFU moment, right, which is just some of, you know, various insights from each one of us not going to be doing it like as a group. But, you know, we'll each jump into the Facebook group and just do a quick live stream video throughout the week with one or two different, you know, topics or insights as to what we consider our path to POFU or what our position of fuck you are, for those of you that are unaware of what POFU stands for, that's what that stands for. And essentially, it's just about getting, putting your yourself in a position where you can, you know, pick and choose what you want to work on and your life is in a much better position because you've engineered it or designed it that way. And you know, it takes time to get to that there's no doubt but that's part of what powerful live event is going to be about is a way to kind of shortcut that instead of going through many years of trial and error, which a lot of us here have done. You know, we've all gained, my partners and I have all gained a lot of insight since we've been working digital marketing business or various businesses for that matter. over all these years, we've all been entrepreneurs and business owners for many years now. And we've tried a lot of things even as a group, as partners have tried many different things. And, you know, we've learned a lot we've become much more experienced in what kind of things we should pursue and one of the primary things is pursue something that you're passionate about, you know, too often I think people get into business and try to become an entrepreneur or start their own business to chase money and obviously there's certainly that's a big, motivating factor, but I think there's a lot more to having a high quality of life and being in a position to fuck you than money alone.
You know, if you're just always chasing the almighty dollar, then a lot of the times you can become a slave to that dollar. And that's no way to live in my opinion. I know because I've done it, I've done it in the past, I've worked with shitty clients, because they were they, you know, I gave them a price that they were willing to pay even though I had a bad gut feeling that they were going to be shitty clients. You know, and that's always hit me in the ass, right? That's always come back to haunt me and be something you know, it's been miserable. So over the years, I've learned to pick and choose and it's taken a while to get to that position. But I've really learned to pick and choose what I want to work on and really only go after things that I'm passionate about. And then in the more recent times, just very briefly, you know, I got really kind of fed up with just digital marketing for other people's businesses, doing client work and or just straight lead generation.
And a lot of it has to do with I think the market is, you know, doing local business marketing, it's become very, it's almost saturated. It's not that you can't still do it, you certainly can, especially if you know how to get consistent results. But it's getting harder to be able to sell services, right, because of so many other people out there doing it. And a lot of people don't know what they're doing. A lot of business owners get bad taste in their mouth and that kind of stuff. And honestly, I've been doing it for since 2010. So I kind of was getting burned out on it. And recently, I'm more recently I started a real estate business, that's my own business. And it's, you know, for flipping properties, and I'm building my own business and applying all of my digital marketing knowledge that I've, you know, acquired over the years to that as well as more traditional marketing. And I've seen incredible growth with that business in a very short period of time. And it's fun again, I've got passion again for what I'm doing. And so that's part of what I'm going to be talking about at the POFU Live event is how I think passion is a very important part of what you should be doing for your business. And I know some of you might be saying, well, I got to make some money, and I get that, but you should be, you know, do what you gotta do to put food on the table, no doubt, but at the same time, you should always be thinking in my opinion of what you can do around your passion to start monetizing that. And then, you know, putting the marketing methods into place and in the practice that will help you to grow that business, whatever that may be. And it doesn't have to be client work if that's what you want to do. Sure. So be it if lead generation is your thing, so be it. But or whatever business you want to get into, you have the resources available for marketing online. And more recently, I'm going to earn in the coming months, I'm going to be teaching a lot more about offline stuff that has a significant effect on growing a bottom line for business too.
So that was really my little path to POFU moment right now that I wanted to chat about. I know Chris and Marco each have their own and again, we're going to be talking about these in various like just short little live streams into the Facebook groups over the next couple of weeks. One more thing is next Thursday and everybody that's on our subscriber list. And we'll post in the groups and everything else as well. We're going to have a webinar where we're going to talk more about what POFU Live is next Thursday at 12:30 pm. Eastern Marco won't be there, because he's actually going to be off next week. But the rest of us should be there. And we're going to, you know, kind of just talk about and answer questions about what POFU Live is and what people can expect. So with that, Chris, do you have any insight you want to share? Before we get into questions?
Chris: about POFU? Well, I'm excited. But I will only say a few words in that because I will share one of the things that had like a tremendous impact on what I focus on what I do in my business. But the thing is, it's one of the topics that I really don't like to share on the internet. So if you want to know what it's about and benefit from my knowledge, I highly recommend it and also come to the event.
Bradley: Well, that was short and sweet.
Marco: I think one of the things that we need to concentrate on, and I always tell people this you see me when I post all over Facebook to come to the Hump Day Hangout, don't get stuck in the middle. It doesn't this isn't just for me. I mean, think about it. If you want to fail, fail miserably. But Learn, learn from your failure, right? Use that as a stepping stone to success. And by the same token, if you succeed, then make sure that you're succeeding on your own, excuse me, your magnificent obsession, so that you become more even more obsessive about the things that help you succeed because we can either become slaves to negativity, or we can feed off of all that positive energy that comes from succeeding, and succeeding again, doesn't mean that that in between all those successes, you're not going to have failures, it's still going to happen. But it's just, it's you have to make your, your worst, your worst moments, your worst moments to force you into the most focusing clarity. I know it's going to seem weird if you're in the middle of one of those worst moments in your life, but that has to force you to focus to look at why you got there. And then to give you clarity into the things that you have to do to get the fuck up and work and work your way back to the path to POFU.
Bradley: I agree with that. So with that, I think we can get into questions. We don't have a lot of questions. So we might be closing it up early today unless you guys decide that you want to furiously post a bunch of questions before we run out of them. And that's perfectly fine as well. But as I got today's national cheeseburger day in case you didn't know in the United States and I get to take my daughter to dinner today. I already told I said we're going to get a cheeseburger somewhere. Anyways, that said, Let me get the screen. And we'll get right into anything else we need to mention guys. I don't know that we do anybody?
Marco: No, I don't think so. Right.
Chris: Very good. Let's get going.
Bradley: Let's do it then. Hernan dropped out. So it's just the three of us. All right.
What Are Thoughts On Exact Match Domains With gTLDs Like .plumbing?
So we'll start with Mike. He says, Hi, what do you think about the new GTL Ds for a local service provider? Is it good to create a website on URL with one of the new TLDs instead of a.com use something like that best design about plumbing for example website for a plumber would be like you know Mike .plumbing or even more, what about exact match keyword domain like website design for website design services, I understand exact matches note not so good.
Herewith a new detail a detailed these. What does gTLD? I know what top-level domain is, but what does the G stand for? I have no idea is the first time I've seen that mobile maybe? Yeah, I don't know maybe So anyway, he says, but here with the new domains, we have exact keywords already. It will be a good idea to have a business name Ashley flower store combined with the URL like wedding florist. Thanks. Um, you know, I, I actually like those new domains. I've got several of them that I've got a client actually that I, I encouraged to use one of those specifically because I happen to like them, I haven't had any problem ranking them at all, you know, especially if it's part of the, if it's part of the brand name. So for example, my real estate company that I just started. It's got realty in the name, and there's a .realty top-level domain or you know, whatever those new extensions. So realty is one of them. And so my company it's my company names alpha land Realty. And so I've got alphaland. realty and it works out really well because it just, it makes sense. What's funny is whenever I'm talking to people, and I, like, you know, realtors or surveyors, or whatever, and I'm telling them like to email me, I give them my email address, and they're always like, alpha land, you know, at alpha land dot Realty. And then they go, is it com?
Like, no, no, it's not Realty. But uh, I've got a couple of clients that I have actually talked into using those domains as well, and we haven't had any issues whatsoever. Obviously, you know.com is normal, more normal, you know, if you can get it, that's great. But the problem is, it's it's getting harder and harder to get the comms that you want. And I think if you can use those types of domains, you know, as long as it's not, I don't know about an exact match keyword, but if you can work it into a brand name, then I don't see why not. You know, there's a ton of different plumbers out there that have plumbing as part of their name, right? So dot plumbing would be a good opportunity to use that in, in their domain. That said, Remember, like I just mentioned, a lot of times when I'm telling people what my email addresses at my domain for my real estate business, they often want to append.com or something to the end of it, which is incorrect. And I've even had people saying, call me and say, hey, look, I sent you an email, but you never replied. So what did you send it to? And then they'll say, you know, whatever at alphaland.realty.com said, well, that's not correct. So you got to keep that in mind until people become more custom with these types of domains, these new domain extensions, then you're going to have that which is why like, if you can just go with a.com and stuff, that's great. But if you can't, then I don't see any problem using it. I'd like to get you guys opinion
Marco: My only opinion on that would be over-optimization. If you're going to go with an exact match keyword. Right, the domain turns out to be an exact match keyword because Google will recognize that as an exact match keyword, so you're going to have to be dealing that you already have the word plumbing in your URL structure. If you try to include plumbing, some plumbing comes up down the line in the same URL, you could run into those problems. Now, I haven't seen any problems as far as ranking as you know, we're working with land solutions network is the National site that I'm building with Rob. I mean, there's just there are no issues because it everything that we teach has nothing really to do with the domain extension that you use. What we teach is branding and entity and how to strengthen that entity and how to make it even stronger over time so that it's way stronger than anybody else's. We were after becoming the entity the recognized entity, right. The trusted authoritative.
The go-to website in that niche, the trusted and authoritative website. That's what we're after. And so we're not so concerned about but what the TLD, it doesn't matter. As long as you're structuring everything else correctly, it will rank regardless. Or in spite of even sometimes even if you're over-optimized, you can overcome that right with what we teach, which is ART – activity, relevance, trust, and authority.
Bradley: Yeah. Yep. So Chris, your thoughts?
Chris: Yeah. The only issue that I run into the couple old school services that don't take the generic top-level domains, the longer they will recognize it. Yeah, your idea. That's the only issue Other than that, no problems. Yeah. That what it stands for the generic top-level. Yes. Okay.
Bradley: Thanks. Yeah, I didn't know that either. Yeah, and I've experienced that in a couple places where, you know, try to tie the domain to service or something, and it'll it won't recognize a gtld or whatever, one of those newer domain extensions that will say, Please enter a valid domain, you know, and I've had to contact support and say this is a valid domain, I've got a website on it, and then they have to go fix their code to make it acceptable. Do you know what I mean? So I have experienced that too. But I think that'll become more common as time goes on because there's only a finite number of dot coms really that are reasonable anyways. So
Chris: yeah, one more thing that I just remembered. I'm not sure if that's still the case. There are certain domains that were available for I don't know, like $1 or something like that, that XYZ and if it's like a domain that is like massively abused on like black hat tactics and stuff, I'm not sure if that's still the case. Like, there were a couple of penalties on those previously, anybody knows if that's still the case?
Bradley: Yeah, but look Google's alphabet is on XYZ. I know what you're saying though, because a lot of the mass page builders, you know, dot x, y, z domains were on sale for $1 for a long time, and they got mass page spammed to death, like what the book two different types of mass page sites? Lead Gadget. What was the other one the plugin version of it? Shit, I can't remember the name of it now, which is crazy. But a lot of those types of domains got spammed to death with this mass page builds on those dot XYZ is I know because we had remembered guys, we built like 675 sites or 725 sites and when we got smacked for the dot XYZ is we lost like, I don't know 600 600 and some. It was crazy. So I yeah, I know what you mean. I wouldn't recommend using those types of really overly spammed extensions. But some of these newer ones, I don't think there's been a lot of change for them to be spam that much. So was a good question though.
How To Create Local Citations And NAP For A Plumber?
Here's the thing. You know, very few people, actually, at least from contractors, which almost, you know, almost all of the businesses that I've been doing client work for, as well as for lead generation stuff, our contractors, and they're almost all service area businesses, very few of them have a storefront and those that do it's typically because they got a showroom like a kitchen remodeling company, for example, might have a showroom where they show off show to showcase to different types of kitchen layouts and things like that. But very rarely, because most all of them are surface area businesses, which means we hide they're addressing Google. But I still build citations for them, which will show the street address on most all of like 90-95% of the business directories that they're listed on. Why? Because it doesn't really matter. You know, even my contracting clients that run their contracting company from their home don't really care because not very many leads ever come from any of those other websites, we use those other directories to help them rank in Google, because that's where they get, you know, the vast majority of their leads, and people go to Google and search and they don't actually see their address. That makes sense.
So you know, if you're going to build citations you can if it's for a valid business that has a real physical location with the street address, then go ahead and include it. If for whatever reason your client or your business, if it's your own business, does not want your physical address published, then just don't build citations on those particular directories, the ones that require a street address just build on the ones that allow you to get away with company name, city-state, zip, and phone number and you know, web address and that kind of thing.
You know, that's entirely up to you. That said, if you are using a spammed GMB profile, so a black hat profile that a business doesn't really reside where you say it does, don't build citations period. And the reason I say that is because what happens is when you start building citations, that company name and that address that was used will actually get onto mailing lists for you know, the, what just gets on the mailing list period and all of a sudden you'll start getting solicitation in the mail like physical mail for advertising specialties like from you know, people that create pens with the name on it and things like that you'll get marketing mail from the directory services a lot of times trying to upsell you on additional marketing services. And you'll just start to start getting like checks like VISTA print, you know, things like that, and people that are trying to get you to sign up to have checks and merchant account processors and credit card machines and things like that, you start getting all this shit sent to an email or a physical address that either doesn't exist or is it actually where your business is located. And if it's going to somebody else's business or residence, then they can often report that they're getting mail from a company or to this address to a company that doesn't actually reside there.
And so it's a good way to get your business shut down or your listing shut down anyways. And if it's a nonexistent address, then the post service will start returning the mail to those directories or you know, the mailing list providers and eventually can get reported that there's not a business there. So I recommend and we've been recommending this for well over a year. Now if you're going to be using any spammed addresses, then don't build citations, you can still rank in maps without building structured citations. They certainly help. But you don't need them. Do you know what I'm saying? So and you guys want to comment on that at all?
Marco: Yes, it's two different things. Right? One of them is Google requiring a service area business that displays the address. And the other one the question that he should be asking or that this person should be asking is, is it a legitimate business with I don't know the store. And a storefront or a place of business can just be a garage, right where they, where they can receive a businessman if that's so they should definitely have a name, address and phone number because that helps your entity as far as the location is concerned. Right? It creates what we call the centroid, the business centroid, where you have that legitimate address and you can get the citations and you can do all of that work to enhance your entity. Then as Bradley said, If you using a spam business address, then no, you don't want to do the citations. So it depends. This is, as always, on the internet and with the space in which we work. This depends entirely on the type of business that you're servicing, or whoever your client is, it depends entirely on how you're setting that up.
Can We Use MGYB Embeds For Maps, PDFs, Websites For Non-English Keywords?
Okay, so the next one is from Peter, he says, Hey, can we use MGYB embed network for maps, PDFs, websites, etc, for non-English keywords? That's a question for you, Marco.
Marco: No, right to write to [email protected] And that's a question for Dadea whether he's willing to do that in another language, as far as I know, No, English only, but you know, again, it's up to the idea, write to [email protected] and ask your question there and you'll get a better response.
Bradley: Very good.
Would It Be Possible To Outrank Major Directory Sites Since They Don't Have Strong On-Page SEO For Each Location?
Gordon's up. What's up Gordon? He says, Hey guys, thanks very much again for your hump to help I read this question prior to the previous question Gordon, to myself, and it sounds like a question that you've asked many times before. So, I don't know. We'll go ahead and answer it again, cuz we didn't have a lot of questions anyways. But I swear to God, we've answered this question before, or at least it sounds very similar to some of the other questions. But anyway, I just thought that that was kind of funny. He says, I know you said that local organic SEO is harder now mainly because and he's talking about local organic SEO guys that's ranking you know, organic underneath the map section is now harder mainly because of the major local directories dominating the first page. But if you wanted to rank your own multi-location, local directory site was strong on-page SEO as well as normal off-page SEO, would it be possible to outrank the major directory sites, since they may not have strong on-page SEO for each location and may not do extensive off-page SEO either?
Yeah, it's certainly possible. We've talked about that before. It's possible to outrank even in the more metropolitan areas, the major directory sites with enough force applied right with and that's essentially the case it's if you have enough for supply, which can be a combination of on-page as well as off-page stuff. Can you outrank like Yelp or home advisor Angie's List? Yeah, of course, you can. But what is the like return on investment for that? Right, that's the key. And so and I know I've answered this in the past to where it's going to be harder to outrank those directory sites is going to be the more metropolitan areas, which are the more searched more commonly searched keywords, for example, and I know I've used this example answering this very question before, so I know I've answered this before, but again, I'm okay with answering it now because we don't have a ton of questions. Fairfax County, Virginia, it's got 23 different locations or towns, municipalities within the county, Fairfax City being just a very small one within the greater County, but there's a bunch of different areas like or what you could call suburbs, but they're different towns, right? So like Vienna Tysons Corner open. There's a bunch of them, right. Fairfax station is another one. My point is, most people in that entire county doesn't matter whether they're in Vienna or Tysons Corner or Oakton or wherever they are, they're just going to search tree service, Fairfax, right, or Fairfax Tree Service or something like that. If they're looking for tree service in that area, no matter which township they're in because they know they're in Fairfax. So that trying to outrank Angie's List and Yelp and you know, home advisor and things like that for that general term. For that greater more commonly used geo modifier or local modifier is going to be a hell of a lot more difficult than trying to outrank Yelp and all those directory sites for Tree Service Tysons Corner or Tree Service. Piano or Tree Service open, you get the idea.
So my I've always said that if you're going to especially if you're going to build a directory site, or if you're going to optimize a client site that has, you know, service area business where they serve all those different areas, you're better off creating individual landing pages, especially with silo structure for each one of those suburb areas with the greater more commonly used location modifier phrase as the top of the silo, right? Because then what you do is you with internal linking and everything else, you create the relevancy and what Network Empire always called buoyancy, which helps to rank that more general term, in this case, Tree Service Fairfax, right, and this, you know, the example that I'm sharing. So, yes, you can do it. It's better to start with the less competitive smaller suburb areas because the grip the bigger business directories don't typically target those. It's not that they that you will still see examples of them.
You know, having index pages directory index pages for the smaller suburb areas, but there, they, the SEO teams for the bigger for the big directories will spend money and effort on ranking for the bigger terms. Right. So the more generalized location modifier type keywords, then they do on the suburb areas because they have limited resources on a national level. In other words, does that make sense? They've got deep pockets, bigger budgets, teams of SEO people and all that kind of stuff. So they focus on the more metropolitan areas and they usually often don't put much effort on the smaller suburb areas or towns within counties and that kind of stuff. And that's where your opportunity lies your best opportunity to get quick results at a what it what a lesser opportunity cost. In other words, as I said, your return on investment. It's easier to rank a suburb type keyword and get it monetized me even if it's a smaller revenue that is generating, then spending months and months and months trying to outrank for the harder, much more competitive term that yes, it's going to generate more revenue. But if you've got to spend a shit ton of time, effort and money trying to get that ranked before you ever see Penny number one, then why, you know, again you're much better off it's much more it's a much better approach to start targeting the smaller areas that you can monetize much quicker. That makes sense. And I know you guys got some comments on that.
Marco: Yeah, you know, I'm going to point out our DC plumber, plumber in DC test where we took on Yelp, Angie's lease, Angie's List, rotor rooter, john c flood, all of the big hitters in the Washington DC area for plumbing, and it can totally be done. Now the question is, whether your client has enough money or whether or what your budget is because the link building alone this is that million link test, right? The link building alone can get into the thousands of dollars. So if you have to run press releases, which is four to five, between four and five, a $400 to $500. In press releases, you need embed, you're going to need the drive stack, g site, you're going to definitely need the syndication network, the entity has to be right. So all of the work has to be in place. So you're talking about what $2,000 to go after that now, in the long run, is definitely going to be worth it. Correct, because of the leads that you're going to get. This is one of those cases where I mentioned the plumber had to take one of his phones off the hook. He couldn't handle the calls. All right. So it's just one of those things. How much money do you have to spend on this project? I mean, what are you? What's your budget, and how are you going to use that budget to go after and outranking or be able to rank within this because you'll see that that the G site ranks we rank in the three-pack of course. It ranked in organic.
Bradley: Yeah, I was I was looking at that I was just looking at some of the different borough names in DC to see what pops up. But yeah, this is what you were talking about and see Marco's Google site here for the, you know, he's ranked number one in maps, but then in Google Sites is number three, because it's pushed, at least from where I'm searching. It's pushed down below Yelp and Angie's List. And that's what I was saying. Gordon was that again, organic that you know, there's a lot of money that these companies put into ranking in organic, they might not have a maps listing, that's where your real edges, but for a directory style site, you're not going to have maps listings anyways, right? If that's what you're trying to build, you're going to be competing down here. And that's why I was saying something like DC. It's there is money being pumped into the SEO teams for these areas for Yelp and Angie's List and look home advisor number four, and Marco was able to squeeze into there by doing what we do, but again, it's what is at what cost, right? And that's why if you're able to target like for example, Dupont Circle is an area in DC you have a better opportunity. Like here's Spartanman.com and Spartan man, he's got two listings in the top four and plumber, Washington, Oregon we in sons calm, Thomas Clark or E. Clark calm. He's got two in the top 10 you can see obviously this is a borough or district within the city of Washington DC. And you can see that organically, Yelps got a couple of listings, but then the rest are almost all individual players. Does that make sense? Sorry. Go ahead.
Marco: Yeah, after pushing all of that power initially, so that you can get into DC then it becomes easier what you just mentioned, because not now we're expanding the directory site, we're adding depth and breadth, as, Jeffrey Smith calls it, and it just becomes incrementally easier as you go. So that it's not going to take a million links to rank for these outlying area is going to be that much easier. And pushing into those outlying areas will actually help. It'll, again, Network Empire, it'll create buoyancy for your top market level keyword which is the DC plumber. But this is, again, this is a two year at well over two years over a two-year-old test, which you know, basically, nothing has been done since then. And imagine if we had just kept at it, we could probably be challenging Angie's List and Yelp and I have no doubt that we can we take him down. But the whole point behind this it was just a test we wanted to test and see how far would we go with power. And it just, it just goes to show that if you push enough power.
Yes, you can get after these people. Now, if you have a $500 a month client, you can't do this. That's right. If you have $1,000 a month client, you can only start your to be able to start with something like this. You're at around $2,500 to $3,000. And your client has to understand that to rank for the top level, you're going to rank for a whole lot of long-tail keywords so that the money is going to come in. But are they willing to hold out three, four months? While all of this takes place? And most of these mom and pop plumbing places now working out of the garage, they can't hold out your $3,000 a month for three, four months. That's $9,000 $12,000 they can't come out of pocket with that. Yeah, unless they really understand what it is that you can do. Yeah, that that would be your job to sell it.
Bradley: And if you're selling directory if you're trying to build a directory site, which in your question, then you're likely going to be charging a directory listing fee, which is going to be a much, much lesser amount than if you were getting, like a retainer for monthly SEO services from an individual client. I mean, again, I can only imagine that you're going to so in order for you to rank like your index page, which would be like what you're seeing here, this is a Yelp index page. This is an anti-Angie's List index page, you're going to have to have a significant number of clients in that particular business vertical or industry that are paying you in order for you to justify the cost that it would take to rank a cat directory index page for that type of a term. That makes sense. So again, it's, you know, years ago, it was so much easier to build directory sites and I, you know, I dabbled in that myself. But it's also a pain in the ass because if you think it's hard working for an individual client, imagine if all your revenue comes from a little tiny, you know, little, little tiny, monthly, monthly, you know, retainers or whatever it is monthly subscription fees, or even yearly subscription fees, which is what a lot of people want to pay when they're in a directory, and happen to have dozens and dozens and dozens of clients and each business vertical. Right? That I mean, again, it's it, you end up with a lot of churns, you end up a lot of people that come in and say that they want to subscribe to your directory service. And if you don't, if they don't get leads from you right away, they cancel, you know, and that. So it just to me, it's, I don't know that it's worth it. I'm not trying to discourage you from it, I just know that I've done in the past. And it's a lot of work to get a directory to rank, it's easier, in my opinion, to get an individual site to rank. And you usually get a better budget to work with at that point, too. So
Marco: And one last thing. Now it could be that you build your directory and you rank it, and you rent it. And you get this person, a ton of calls and whoever it is. Either doesn't answer the calls. They don't answer them in time, or they're horrible. their phone manners are terrible. And they're not going to close any of them. Guess whose fault it is?
Bradley: Yeah. And their eyes, it's your fault that they can close the deal. Yeah. So you run into that. That's where your leads are shitty now leads or leads. Yeah.
Yeah, we heard that before too.
Should You Use Different Approach When Optimizing And Cloning Ad Landing Pages And Regular Site Pages?
So all right, Muhammad's up, Muhamad. And What's up, buddy? He says, Hey, guys, a prospect sent me his roofing website for a review. And I noticed that his previous web guys made pages like Best Roofing Services in Albany and Best Roofing Services in Utica. And so on that pattern of multiple client pages with just the city being changed. Is this a viable strategy? Still, it seems to basic question but from what from when I've cloned pages in the past I've only done it with ad landing pages, not regular site pages. Should there be more differentiation?
I tell you 100% equivocal Yes, they should be different. And I've always done that, I know that there probably are still sites out there that rank by just changing the location modifier. But ever since I mean, 2012 timeframe, I've always, always, always, when I've had a moat, you know, been targeting basically the same service and multiple cities have always had article rewrites done. And I've talked about this numerous times, guys over the years. But it's because even if it does still work, which I wouldn't suggest it at all. At some point, it's going to stop working, because it's so easy. I mean, algorithmically. The only thing different about the pages is that location name, that's, you know, that's just the same content over and over again, and can trigger a Panda penalty. And I know that like the mass page sites and things like that, they're out there and that's all they pretty much do or they use spinners, which is my thing is even worse because it's fun content reads like garbage.
But what I've always done it would get, you know, like I would have, let's say, Roofing Services is the primary keyword, I would have five different writers write a roofing services article, right. So now I'd have five versions of that article. And then I would order two or three rewrites of each one of those articles, right, so that you went because rewrites are a lot less expensive than our original content cost. The cost for original content, none of that shits original content. By the way, guys, when you order articles unless you know a writer, you know that that's actually writing original content, which is very rare. If you're ordering content from a current content farm. All they do guys is go scrape an article from online, they run it through a spinner or they rewrote manually rewrite it either way they read they they end up rewriting something, some content that they pull it offline, where they mix and match pieces of content, around Roofing Services in this example, that they pulled offline. They're not writing original content guys that they haven't done that shit for years.
So just so you're aware that, so what I would do is just order, like I said, a few originals, so to speak. And then I would have those rewritten because it costs a fraction to have rewrites done than it does to have to order original content, so to speak. And then I would use those. So for example, if I needed 25 articles, I might get five articles written, and then have five, you know, four rewrites did of each one of those articles. And that would give me a total of 20. Down, excuse me, 25 with the five originals, and then I would use then I would swap out the location modifier is in there. And what I would do is I would instruct my writers to, I would put the location in, but I would usually just use you know, square brackets location, right, so location in and I mean, like the word location in square brackets, because that's now a token that you could use to find and replace function to swap out location names, right. And so that way, it would make it easy. You could have just one article written in and have it rewritten multiple times without having to go in and manually change the location for each one of them. That makes sense.
You just instruct them to use the location token. That's how I did it. I would recommend if you're if this is going, you know if this is a prospect that you would recommend to them, that they make the content more unique or that that's something that you would provide to them as a service if you take them on as a client, because and tell them exactly that exact reason that's that kind of shit can trigger a panda penalty because it's basically duplicate content on the same domain. Right? And that's, that's where duplicate content becomes an issue is when it's on the same domain. If it's the same page over and over and over again, then that creates a lower quality score for the entire site. You want to comment on that, Marco? Are you muted?
Marco: Yeah, no, no, sorry. Sorry about that. No, no, no. That was good enough.
Bradley: Okay. All right. So yeah, no, I totally recommend that you always use and I've been doing that for years and years and years, even when I know that other people were like even competitors would just clone this same fucking page and put the change up the location modifier and get results and it would always piss me off. But I always said I don't want to build up this website with that kind of shitty tactic and then when it does get penalized then I got to start all over again like I don't like to do rework I like to build it and have it produced for me for years and years and years, which I've got sites still that are producing for me that I built years ago for that reason and especially that tree service industry because I was able to make the content unique on each page right and that to me, that's a big deal. So
How To Run An Ads Campaign For Printer Repairs When Google Adwords Rejects It?
Will says, what's up? Will, he says I have a client in the printer hardware sales he example HP design jet and repairs Google AdWords has disapproved all of our printer repair ads. This is a robot issue probably because you use a trademark name and the ad. Other than GMBs and SEO Do you have any suggestions? I have tried Printer Maintenance printer services type keyboards and Google ads and they tend to run for a week or so before they get disapproved. One thing I haven't tried is YouTube ads or Facebook ads.
Printer Maintenance and printer service keywords shouldn't be disapproved if they will are I would get on the phone with a Google Ads Rep and ask Why? To find out why because that's a generic word, right? That's a generic keyword that's not a brand term or a trademarked term. The problem with using, for example, Google suggests in there for Google ads, if use callouts, call out extensions, for example, they give suggestions in there for the type of text that you can add as a callout extension. And so a call that extension is like where you can list the features or the benefits of a product or service for example, and what that does is it just takes up more real estate in the ad section for your ad. In other words, it makes your ad bigger, and it allows you to get more text in there and things like that.
And so they'll suggest that in the callout extension when you go to, you know when you say that you want to add some callout extensions, they'll provide you with some suggestions. And it's funny because they'll say see ad review on and then they have in square brackets his review site and I know because I just was setting up an ads campaign for a remodeling client just last week and it suggested that and I was like, Hmm, I didn't think we could do that. So I actually created a callout extension that said car reviews on and there he's got reviews on house.
I think he's got someone home advisor. He's got reviews on his Facebook page, and they're all really you know, 4.9 stars and up is what he's got. And so anyway, I went to I started adding a few of those call-outs like that and guess what every one of them got disapproved for trademark. And I was just like, Well, wait a minute, Google just suggested this. But so when I removed all of those, you know, all different names of different brands or trademark names, then the other call outs got approved. So I just want to let you know, like, if it's a trademark name, like a brand name or something like that, and you can oftentimes use like competitors brand names for local businesses because they haven't trademark them, by the way, but for trademark names, it will usually be disapproved right away. But for something like Printer Maintenance or printer service, as long as you're not doing HP design jet, or HP or Hewlett Packard, for example, printer service or Printer Maintenance, I don't see why that would be disapproved. So
Marco: well I think that's what he's saying that he's using HP designed it say or maintenance or maintenance. Yeah, yeah. And so because he I don't know he put that in.
Bradley: Yeah, and know if you're using HP design jet and that's a trademarked name in the actual ad along with Printer Maintenance, for example, that I can see why it wouldn't be approved. So again, I would contact. Look, I know a lot of times shit happens with Google ads that I just don't make any sense. And the only way to get an answer is to call them and ask and sometimes it will take a couple of days to get, you know, to get a valid response. For example, another one is I had, I don't know if you know, but you can use remarketing lists as what they call an observation. You can add an observation audience, which is essentially a remarketing list is what I like to use for search ads. Not remarketing lists for search ads in our LSA, but I'm saying you can if you have a remarketing list built you can actually use that or add an audience to a search add a search ad campaign not to serve to that audience but it helps to show kind of creates like a similar to or lookalike audiences, I guess in Facebook, they would call it but a similar audience so that Google will serve your ad your Search Ads to people that are more likely to engage with them. And so you call it an observation, ad or observation list. And for whatever reason, all of my observation lists were saying your remarketing list has been suspended for search, use or search, ad use or whatever. And I didn't know why.
And I spent like an hour digging into Google forums and help threads and all this kind of stuff, trying to figure out why it was saying that they were, you know, what did I do wrong? And finally, I just call it a Google Rep. And I, you know, sometimes I'm wary of doing that because I'm worried that they're going to, you know, I'm going to reveal something about my account that I shouldn't have done. But I just called Google and I got on the phone with somebody. And within about, they ended up saying that they had to escalate it up to their engineering department. And then they get back to me within. They said, 48 hours. Well, within two hours, I got a call back from the Google rep that I'd spoken with. And she said, Oh, it's a known bug. You didn't do anything wrong. Don't worry about it. The when it gets fixed that that warning message that says that suspended will be cleared automatically. And within 24 hours everything will clear it up. So what I'm the reason I say that is just don't hesitate to call Google ads. Remember, you're spending money on their platform. I don't like to contact Google for any SEO related support, although sometimes we have to. But when it comes to Google ads, I'm paying them money, you know, so I don't mind calling them and asking them to clarify issues and most of the time I get a reasonable response from them. So as far as YouTube and again, as long as you're not using a trademarked term in the ad copy, I don't see why that would be an issue. But I don't know you'd have to contact them for sure.
The core group of generic level top domains consists of com info, net and.org. Okay, thank you for that. That's GTLD generic top-level domains.
How To Verify Spam GMBs?
Will says how do we get spam GMB is verified I created a legitimate GMB for a paper lead generation service in the roofing market. And I would like to test how I can expand with multispam GMBs. Well, it's, you know, for a long time Will, and you should know this, you were well, was that POFU Live last year? Right? So anyway, I mean, we were able to get for a long time we were able to create GMB listings that were black added listings and there were a ton of services out there that you could buy him from we offered it as well. But there's it's been crackdown on there are probably services out there still selling them, but just go look in some of the other Facebook groups and you'll see about people that have built, you know, dozens or even hundreds of GMBs that were verified with the black hat verification methods that have just been completely fucking suspended now like I mean, and people lost a whole bunch of them. So you know, some of them I've got a bunch that I created, I created close to 100 and I've got most of them I had a few of them get suspended, but I've got a lot of them still
But there's a lot of them that are just been suspended, like completely whack. So I don't recommend that man, if, if you're going to build additional GMBs have access to a physical address that you can receive a postcard, even if you got to use the post office option. With the street address, which I've talked about many times, that still works, and at least you have the ability to go retrieve mail there. So it's a real valid physical address. It's the spam listings that get black added that don't aren't attached to a real address or attached to an address that you can't have access to. You can't go retrieve mail from those are the ones I don't recommend doing. And guys, I know there are probably still services out there selling them, use them at your own risk. You have to understand what you're getting into if you're going to use those and you lose your business because you built your business up on those, you know why? Right? I mean, it's it's you have to you have to take that use it your own risk, right. So I wouldn't recommend doing that.
Is There A Difference When It Comes To Using An Image From A GMB Album Versus Uploading The Same Image When Writing A Post?
Bradley:Does it make a difference if we use an image from the GMB album. Writing a post for uploading the same image again? You mean from the photos album, the Google My Business photos album? No, I mean, you can do it either way. I don't think it matters. Marco, do you have a comment on that?
Marco: Yeah, I don't think it makes a difference. But just upload new images. I think he just got into our local GMB Pro. If I'm seeing that name seems familiar, you'll see how you can get unlimited local images. So there's no reason why you shouldn't be uploading relevant local images with all of the geo tagging and just serving Google and giving Google white at once.
Bradley: Yeah, remember, you can also use my team uses a mix of the local images and topical images just to mix it up. And we do use stock images from time to time but try not to use those unless it's in an industry that's kind of hard to get good images from, but you can always go to YouTube and just take snapshots of video those that are topically related, right? Just what I always do is go to YouTube search for, you know, Tree Service tree removal, right, or tree trimming or tree pruning or something like that if it's for free services, for example. And then use the YouTube filters, the search filters to only show videos that are in HD, right and then click through to a video, find a spot in the video that you know it's got a good a good image and pause it and then just take a screenshot of that and use those video or those images because those are unique images, right? That's why I like doing that. It's much better doing that than going in like copying somebody else's image. Just take a screenshot from within a video. So we use a combination of both. Don't use the local images, though, because those are Google can recognize those locations in the images. That's why you want to use those two. All right.
Is It Okay To Use Several Google Stacks For One Local Business?
Is it okay to have several Google stacks for one local business? Marco? That's a question for you.
Marco: Yeah, but why? Yeah, put everything inside one and make it much more powerful. And those are totally webinars are actually free, guys, you have no idea how much value is on those. It's like we give you the keys to the kingdom. And then you guys try to come up with a way not to do it. Go look at the webinars it in mgyb.co write the update webinars, the charity webinars that I did, and all you have to do is donate to my charity. And you get the it's like six hours of webinars for entity and how to expand the drive stack. But it's usually centered around the same one and adding inner pages to UG site and moving all of that relevance over to the target page on your money site. Or you can just leave the G site which as you've seen from the DC plumber, they'll they'll rank just fine. Yeah.
Bradley: Alright, so the last two and then we gotta wrap it up. I only got four minutes left anyways
How Long Should You Wait Before Creating Regular Citations Campaigns In Bright Local?
Bradley about citation building I created a campaign with right local using only aggregators and I was wondering how long I should wait before creating regular citation campaigns. I don't want to duplicate citations. You don't have to wait at all because the way that the aggregators work is the aggregators will publish your information and the other a lot of business directories and various sites will actually scrape data or pull data from those aggregators and create listings automatically. But if there's already a user created listing on that directory site, then they won't write as long as all that's the key, right? As long as all the data is consistent. So, however, you set up your data aggregator that you enter your NAP information, as long as you're consistent, absolutely consistent when you go to build on other citation sites or directory sites, and you're using the same NAP format.
There's no differentiation, right? No discrepancy. Then when those sites were go access or try to pull data from those data aggregators, it will recognize that the listing already exists and it won't publish a second. But if you change a punctuation, or you spell out street as opposed to just using ST, for example, then that creates some invigoration or creates a unique listing, and it could be created automatically as a duplicate listing. So just keep that in mind. But I don't usually wait, what I do is, you know, I do the site because a lot of times those aggregators like sites won't start pulling data from those aggregators for anywhere between 90 to 180 days, right, so three to six months. So I don't wait, I submit to a data aggregator usually right up front, and then I start doing, you know, monthly citation building of somewhere around 30 to 40 citations per month for most clients. That makes sense. Okay.
All right. Last question is Will says or he's more of a comment than a question. He says, Well, I'm using trademark names. Yes, I'm using trademark names with HP. The tire repairs market has been disapproved because of the spam repairs companies. were set up. Yeah, that's what I was saying. I understand that. All right. Looks like that. Was it good timing. Beautiful. Alright, thanks, everybody for being here. We do have a mastermind webinar this week. We got lots of cool stuff that I'm going to be talking about this week. And kind of a preview for pokey live actually. So and then, just for Will's benefit since he asked for a link to the charity. Once you've donated just make sure you write to [email protected] and Chris G will take care of you. We even have scripts that will help you clone the folders and make your life a whole lot easier. And it's a really good cause. So so we totally made it worth your time and your money to Donate to the charity.
Sweet. Thanks, guys. See you next week. I know